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brainwaneI do not have depression and I'm asking a question about how to be a better friend to friends of mine who have depression and who joke (or similar) about hurting themselves. It's under the cut.
I know I have friends who have, or have had, depression. Some of them take medication for it and some don't, some are in therapy and some are not, some of them consider themselves depressed and some of them state that they used to be depressed but are no longer so, most of them have other health conditions that intersect with their depression, most are women, most do not live in the New York City area so I interact with them via Internet and phone mostly. And I'm sure I have friends who have depression but I don't know they have depression.
Sometimes a friend of mine whom I know to have depression says something sort of hyperbolic about killing themselves, like, "my parents want me to take [shitty job] but if it's [method of killing myself] or that job then I'd rather [method of killing myself]". Or they'll vent about a situation they're in that's bad for them, and say something in a light tone about how there's always the option of a type of self-harm.
I know that visibly/audibly freaking out is the wrong response -- I never, like, say stuff like "don't say that" that would strongly imply "I can't handle hearing about that, don't tell me about it, you are freaky and wrong to say stuff like that." And I do not reply with, like, "You have so much to live for" or "it's selfish to kill yourself" or "I'd really miss you if you were gone" or things like that, things that -- as I understand it -- are worse than useless to hear when the hearer is suicidal. But beyond that I don't feel like I have a good handle on how to react well. I offer sympathy, I say that it must be really hard, and usually I try to check in, in some kind of nonjudgmental tone, about whether they are really thinking about hurting themselves. I think I am not good enough at this and I think I don't know how to have the right level of nonchalance and concern and sympathy in my voice or my prose as I react.
Today I got a note from a friend who'd just suffered a bad blow, and the email was unsettling, had stuff like "I don't see a way out." And then we talked on the phone, and they said something sort of hyperbolic about the option of [method of killing themselves]. I know they're prone to dark humor but I wasn't sure whether this was just that or a signal of something more alarming. I was sort of gathering my wits to respond to it, and just from the sound of my breathing I guess, my friend clocked me and said, "You sound scared." And I blurted out, "Yeah I'm scared, look what you just said!" And they responded, "If you're concerned that I'm going to genuinely hurt myself, the answer is emphatically no." And I said I was glad at the reassurance, but I probably muddled it, and now I'm not sure whether they're going to feel safe blowing off steam like that with me in the future.
I think how it usually goes is that if I follow up, the person I'm talking to reassures me that they are not actually going to harm themselves, or that they sometimes have the urge but they always find a way to stave it off. And in future conversations when I ask how they're doing, I try to indicate with my tone that I really mean it, that I remember that mentally they're stressed, but I don't think that's ever elicited an update specifically on the self-harm urge stuff, and I approximately never ask specifically about that.
My goal is to support my friend and be a good friend to them, and when it comes to depression I get confused about what it means to be a good friend, about balancing respect for autonomy and privacy with concern for well-being. So, if you have or have had depression or have been friends with people with depression, I welcome your experiences and advice.
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I know I have friends who have, or have had, depression. Some of them take medication for it and some don't, some are in therapy and some are not, some of them consider themselves depressed and some of them state that they used to be depressed but are no longer so, most of them have other health conditions that intersect with their depression, most are women, most do not live in the New York City area so I interact with them via Internet and phone mostly. And I'm sure I have friends who have depression but I don't know they have depression.
Sometimes a friend of mine whom I know to have depression says something sort of hyperbolic about killing themselves, like, "my parents want me to take [shitty job] but if it's [method of killing myself] or that job then I'd rather [method of killing myself]". Or they'll vent about a situation they're in that's bad for them, and say something in a light tone about how there's always the option of a type of self-harm.
I know that visibly/audibly freaking out is the wrong response -- I never, like, say stuff like "don't say that" that would strongly imply "I can't handle hearing about that, don't tell me about it, you are freaky and wrong to say stuff like that." And I do not reply with, like, "You have so much to live for" or "it's selfish to kill yourself" or "I'd really miss you if you were gone" or things like that, things that -- as I understand it -- are worse than useless to hear when the hearer is suicidal. But beyond that I don't feel like I have a good handle on how to react well. I offer sympathy, I say that it must be really hard, and usually I try to check in, in some kind of nonjudgmental tone, about whether they are really thinking about hurting themselves. I think I am not good enough at this and I think I don't know how to have the right level of nonchalance and concern and sympathy in my voice or my prose as I react.
Today I got a note from a friend who'd just suffered a bad blow, and the email was unsettling, had stuff like "I don't see a way out." And then we talked on the phone, and they said something sort of hyperbolic about the option of [method of killing themselves]. I know they're prone to dark humor but I wasn't sure whether this was just that or a signal of something more alarming. I was sort of gathering my wits to respond to it, and just from the sound of my breathing I guess, my friend clocked me and said, "You sound scared." And I blurted out, "Yeah I'm scared, look what you just said!" And they responded, "If you're concerned that I'm going to genuinely hurt myself, the answer is emphatically no." And I said I was glad at the reassurance, but I probably muddled it, and now I'm not sure whether they're going to feel safe blowing off steam like that with me in the future.
I think how it usually goes is that if I follow up, the person I'm talking to reassures me that they are not actually going to harm themselves, or that they sometimes have the urge but they always find a way to stave it off. And in future conversations when I ask how they're doing, I try to indicate with my tone that I really mean it, that I remember that mentally they're stressed, but I don't think that's ever elicited an update specifically on the self-harm urge stuff, and I approximately never ask specifically about that.
My goal is to support my friend and be a good friend to them, and when it comes to depression I get confused about what it means to be a good friend, about balancing respect for autonomy and privacy with concern for well-being. So, if you have or have had depression or have been friends with people with depression, I welcome your experiences and advice.
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Date: 2016-03-01 08:24 pm (UTC)The initial examples you gave sound very much to me like expressions of frustration and anxiety phrased in a way that seeks assurance - most of the time, I'd recommend responding warmly and lightly to give assurance and engage with helping $friend address those emotions. Like "I like having you around. Let's figure out some other options" or [expression of sympathy / validating their emotions about being in a bad situation] ("that must be so frustrating / stressful / [etc.]) + [nonjudgmental followup on the subject of coping / not coping] ("how are you coping with the stress?" or "sounds like you need a vacation / break" + invitation or suggestion re: something specific to do that would give them a break (come over for dinner, say, or go on a walk together, or 'why don't you take so-and-so up on their offer to go visit for a weekend')).
Does that help? You can empathize with their experience and respond to the underlying fears without validating or ignoring the pull of self-harm, metaphorical or otherwise. I remember how crippling it was when I was depressed to feel like I was this huge unbearable burden in my sadness and fear on everyone around me, and that talking about how I felt even (especially?) to friends was this massive imposition. I wouldn't want to feel even more like a — 'freak' is how it felt, at the time — if I did take the leap of expressing myself, but there's a lot of vulnerability and attempt to take control of what one fears by bringing it up casually / irreverently, and seeing how the other person responds (will they judge me? will they draw away? will they awkwardly ignore it? will they treat it like a joke? will they make a big deal out of it? will they listen and maybe help?). Every time someone affirmed they liked me, or invited me to do something with them, or listened and encouraged me, after I said something revealing of how godawful I felt — it was like a jewel beyond price. It didn't fix me, but it opened doors to sustain me fixing myself.
That being said, if someone sends you an email after a bad blow saying "I don't see a way out" and follows that up with talking on the phone about specifics of how they might follow through on killing themselves, I think it's very appropriate and responsible to be upfront about how that sounds and ask outright if they're considering it. If you can make it matter-of-fact, do, and don't belabor the point if they emphatically rule it out, but I wouldn't let it pass by in that context without checking. (It's mentioning specifics that flags it as more serious to me.)
Hope that helps.