Ha, my input is basically to dump on CACW. There are plenty of character things I liked about Civil War, but the whole Sokovia Accords thing was such utter nonsense. I agree with you that it would have been a better, more coherent plot and conflict had it followed up on IM3 and CATWS. In general, the Cap vs. Iron Man conflict of who should hold the power, Avengers or governments? is a solid one, one grounded in both character and the plots of their respective movies. The problem is that CACW doesn't substantively engage with it. It instead requires Tony to carry the idiot ball in the plot: why the hell would or should he trust Thaddeus Ross?
The fantasy of the Avengers is exactly what Steve says in CACW: the safest hands are our own. That they are dangerous weapons, but they are heroes, heroes who will not allow themselves to be swayed by corruptible governments or corrupt motivations. How plausible a fantasy this is, in universe, is part of where CACW falls down, because we have NO IDEA how plausible it is or isn't. We know we trust Cap, yeah, but we don't really have much of a sense of how the Avengers work within the geopolitical system, because as you say, institution building isn't sexy cinematic fodder.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think a big part of the failures of CACW can be laid at Age of Ultron's feet, because Age of Ultron was totally fucking incoherent and it messes up the interesting post-CATWS Hydra was everywhere, how do we deal with that story they could have potentially told with Civil War. Because instead of substantively addressing the fallout of that, Civil War was left cleaning up the mess of Age of Ultron. Like, it's LEGIT for the world at large to want to control the Avengers after Tony Stark built a powerful murderbot. The problem re Civil War is: what does this have to do with Steve, or with the Avengers as an institution? AOU was Tony Stark fucking up! The engine of the plot was Tony Stark's Bad Choices! You can't really tell an interesting or coherent story about the Avengers as an institution given that. Whereas you COULD have told an interesting story about the Avengers as an institution if they'd stepped into the power vacuum left after the corruption and destruction of SHIELD.
Of course, there's an interesting subtext there: capitalist billionaires fucking things up with their attempts at making things better, capitalism ruins everything yet again. To bring it back to royalty, a capitalist billionaire has no duty to their people the way a monarch does. A capitalist billionaire's failures are individual, they're rooted in the character's personal flaws that become writ large thanks to their power. To bring it back to your original points about royalty, contrast with the monarchs we see in the MCU, whose failures and conflicts are only partly on an individual level; instead, they're dealing with legacies, with institutional and geopolitical choices their countries have made: Asgard's past imperialism, Wakanda's isolationism.
lol I'm thinking this all through as I'm typing, and I have to say, I think my conclusion is that Tony Stark distorts the MCU with his presence, and with the uneasy way his arcs and storylines intersect with the rest of the MCU. I love the character, but he's kind of sucking up all the oxygen that could give other, bigger stories proper room to breathe. Which, I mean, what's new when it comes to billionaires, amirite?
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branchandroot
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Date: 2019-02-12 04:07 pm (UTC)The fantasy of the Avengers is exactly what Steve says in CACW: the safest hands are our own. That they are dangerous weapons, but they are heroes, heroes who will not allow themselves to be swayed by corruptible governments or corrupt motivations. How plausible a fantasy this is, in universe, is part of where CACW falls down, because we have NO IDEA how plausible it is or isn't. We know we trust Cap, yeah, but we don't really have much of a sense of how the Avengers work within the geopolitical system, because as you say, institution building isn't sexy cinematic fodder.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think a big part of the failures of CACW can be laid at Age of Ultron's feet, because Age of Ultron was totally fucking incoherent and it messes up the interesting post-CATWS Hydra was everywhere, how do we deal with that story they could have potentially told with Civil War. Because instead of substantively addressing the fallout of that, Civil War was left cleaning up the mess of Age of Ultron. Like, it's LEGIT for the world at large to want to control the Avengers after Tony Stark built a powerful murderbot. The problem re Civil War is: what does this have to do with Steve, or with the Avengers as an institution? AOU was Tony Stark fucking up! The engine of the plot was Tony Stark's Bad Choices! You can't really tell an interesting or coherent story about the Avengers as an institution given that. Whereas you COULD have told an interesting story about the Avengers as an institution if they'd stepped into the power vacuum left after the corruption and destruction of SHIELD.
Of course, there's an interesting subtext there: capitalist billionaires fucking things up with their attempts at making things better, capitalism ruins everything yet again. To bring it back to royalty, a capitalist billionaire has no duty to their people the way a monarch does. A capitalist billionaire's failures are individual, they're rooted in the character's personal flaws that become writ large thanks to their power. To bring it back to your original points about royalty, contrast with the monarchs we see in the MCU, whose failures and conflicts are only partly on an individual level; instead, they're dealing with legacies, with institutional and geopolitical choices their countries have made: Asgard's past imperialism, Wakanda's isolationism.
lol I'm thinking this all through as I'm typing, and I have to say, I think my conclusion is that Tony Stark distorts the MCU with his presence, and with the uneasy way his arcs and storylines intersect with the rest of the MCU. I love the character, but he's kind of sucking up all the oxygen that could give other, bigger stories proper room to breathe. Which, I mean, what's new when it comes to billionaires, amirite?